IN> Hellsworn Ghosts

[Jonathan Lang]

Elizabeth McCoy wrote:
[concerning the loss of Forces in celestial combat:]
> With the small problem that it's very hard for a human to _get_ into
> celestial combat in the first place.

Not an issue with a Hellsworn phantom; thus the subject of the thread.  :)

[Concerning the Hellforce hiding at the "bottom of the heap":]
> That would tend to make it always the last Force of its kind
> (Corp, Eth, Cel) to be stripped. That would guarantee that the
> battlefield surgery would leave the Hellsworn
> >[...] a vegetable, a Remnant, or dead before the Hellsworn Force is
> >obliterated.
>
> Some might find that a better bargain than leaving it alone...

...then again, a truly repentant human who knows enough about such
things to consider this would almost certainly be knowledgable - and
willing - enough to ask an Archangel for help instead.

This makes sense to me; it puts enough of a cost to make this a _very_
unattractive option.

[Concerning the Lilim Force comment:]

Note that both the Lilith PDF and "Fall of the Malakim" agree that
Lilith infuses _every_ Force that she uses to create a Lilim with her
nature - although they also clearly agree that it's the Ethereal
Forces that carry the secret ingredient, and Final Trumpet backs this
up: the one-Ethereal-Force Remnant of Mira was _not_ a Lilim; it was a
Remnant, and thus did not belong to any Choir or Band.  But it _did_
still include the "secret ingredient".

However, it appears to me that the "Lilim-taint" is only neccessary to
the _creation_ of a Lilim; once a Lilim-soul is tied to the
Force-pattern, the "secret ingredient" is no longer needed for it to
continue being a Lilim - although it is still there for as long as the
Ethereal Forces are there, as Mira demonstrated.  And only Lilith
knows how to utilize the "secret ingredient" in order to create a
Lilim; if a DP were to try stripping a Lilim's Ethereal Forces and
using them in the creation of a new demon, the result would be a demon
of one of the other Bands who happens to have an affinity for
bargaining - useful, but not as useful as a Lilim.  The other result
would be a very unhappy Dark Mother.

[Concerning the "migrating HellForce taint" option:]

> To take out the HellForce (or Lilim Force?) would therefore involve
> peeling the Forces into a "crippled" configuration that nipped the
> sucker out -- but left the Forces unable to grow back in that place.
> Perhaps it requires cauterizing the thing in some Superior way, so
> that the Helltaint can't slip out of the isolated Force and take up
> residence in another one.

Eww...

Personally, I think I'd rather go with the "Last of its kind to go"
option.  I prefer a view where things tend to remain tied to
individual Forces, but only Superiors are capable of distinguishing
between them.  I _really_ don't like the "migrating Hell-taint" idea,
as it interferes with the simplest view of cleansing Hell-taint as
"you have to give up everything that Hell gave you".  If Hell gave you
an Ethereal Force, you need to give up an Ethereal Force; you can't
give up a Corporeal Force instead.

BTW, what about a Sorcerer who got Helltaint from his sorcerous
initiation, but _didn't_ receive any Infernal Forces?  Would an
Archangel still have to strip him of an actual and potential Force in
order to get rid of the taint?

> >I would say that this is usually true.  However, Mirror Ghosts are
> >explicitly an exception to this; and I'd wager that Superiors are
> >another.
>
> Superiors are, by nature and design, often exceptions to everything. O:>

The question is, are Mirror Ghosts an exception?  Is it possible for a
Hellsworn to die, become a phantom, learn that his Hellforce has
become a Mirror Ghost, and then hunt it down and destroy it - freeing
himself of Hellsworn status without any outside assistance?  Or does
the Helltaint always migrate to the one Force that the phantom can't
do anything about: the anchor-point?  The former option has story
potential, while the latter reinforces the absoluteness of "you _must_
be repentant and enlist the aid of an Archangel to purge Helltaint".

-- 
Jonathan "Dataweaver" Lang