IN> Preventing destiny and fate (Was: Preventing Destiny and Fate)

[Elizabeth McCoy]

At 4:22 PM -0400 7/26/06, Daniel Childers wrote:
>Second: I admit that I do not see exactly why "voiding" a destiny/fate
>is fanon, but "screwing with" a destiny/fate is canon. 

It's simple. "Void" means to "make null," or to "make nonexistent."
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/void

It's _not_ nonexistent. The destiny and fate _still exist._

However, the ability of the human to achieve one or the other (or,
possibly, both) has been tampered with. I.e., it's going to be hard
or perhaps even impossible to achieve the one that someone's been 
pushing you for.

Thus, it's been screwed with.

It's the difference between whether the cake is stepped on, or
eaten. In the latter, the plate is empty; there's a void where
the cake was. In the former, there's mush all over the plate,
but there might be something that could still be eaten.

Note that the S3 text says you can't _force_ someone. The Symphony
gets snarky about trying to hand someone their destiny or fate on
a silver platter. When you push, things rebound ineffably. If the
story of Oedipus Rex got In Nominized, then having a Shedite learn
of Oeddy's dark fate (Kill father, marry mother) and possess the 
kid to make him do exactly that... would not be his fate. His own
choice, his own free will, would have been tampered with. And, with
daddy dead and mumsy married... But not in a way that his fate 
was _chosen_, he'd be pretty much stuck with "okay, what _good_
can I choose in my life" (i.e., he could still hit destiny), or 
at least "how can I avoid further harm" (reincarnation).

Some attempts at forcing may have loopholes, just so the angels
don't try to get tricky and encourage Shedim to make humans
do their fateful things. (Or so Renegade Shedim don't get the
bright idea to "help" like this.) Say old Oeddy'd been possessed in a
situation where people were specifically _trying_ to "void" his fate...
He could still choose to go back to his adopted father -- with
an army at his back -- and kill him, and then drag his adopted
mother to his bed.

He's gotta choose. It's gotta be a free choice. (Not necessarily an
_informed_ choice! But a free one.)

Telling people about destiny and fate starts stepping on the cake.
People start second-guessing what they're doing, and why. Reincarnation
booms... But people _still_have_ fates and destiny and the choice between,
and there's still bits of cake left on the plate.

>Now: Suppose a sufficiently powerful entity wants to prevent *both*
>destinies and fates. 

It depends a lot on the GM. You might well get a larger increase in
reincarnations -- and you also might get people "swapping" from 
destiny-bound to fate-bound and vice versa, for a net... null score.

If you start pointing at people and telling them _their specific_
fates and/or destinies, then you're definitely tampering more. Of 
course, that takes more time.

>I mentioned Lilith in SSO as a possibility; 

I think the very idea of it would revolt her. She doesn't care
where human choices lead them, so long as they're freely chosen
choices, and putting herself into such a position of "Big Fat
Target" is not on her agenda.

>an in-canon possibility, an Ethereal god would work.

(Lowercase "ethereal" and "celestial" any time when the equivalent
term would be "human." If you wouldn't capitalize "Human" then
don't capitalize the others.)

Yeah, an ethereal might -- but _why_? What's the net benefit? You
get dogpiled by the celestials, you can _only_ affect the ones who
see you, the media -- and the Media -- cuts the feed even if you're
in a big impressive vessel...

Why not just say, "Heaven and Hell exist, and so many of you are
going to be going to Hell for the bad stuff you do! Simple belief
is not enough for them! But if you believe in Great Ra (that's me)
and worship me, I can promise you an afterlife of pleasure and 
relaxation no matter what trivial sin might have otherwise damned 
you! Remember, for your afterlife happiness, Ra! Ra! Ra!"

At least then there's a chance you'll get enough of a power-surge
to fend off the the big guys.





And, of course, the GM can always take the tack that if people start 
second-guessing themselves, that's less likely to lead to fate -- or
at least the big, splashy ones -- and therefore, while most people
will reincarnate, eventually they're statistically likely to choose
destiny _slightly_ more than fate.

This is where everyone is _ready_ to dogpile the ethereal, and Yves walks
over and says, "And that was _your_ destiny."
-- 
--Beth, arcangel at io.com / archangel at sjgames.com  In Nomine Line Editor  
http://www.io.com/~arcangel/