IN> Re: Selflessness Paradox

[Bill Adlam]

David Anderson wrote:

> (a sense of self-satisfaction is merely an illusory reward)

Why is it any more illusory than the pleasure of beating an opponent,
or a full belly, or the adulation of thousands of people?  Finding
utility in something is non-rational, it is not irrational.

And earlier, Cameron Anderson:

> And I'm sure there are people out there who
> undertake actions that they take no pleasure in and are condemned by
> others but do it just the same (though this group may have a
> disproportionate number of serial killers and similar).

Quite.  A selfless action may still be evil - and I judge Destinies and
Fates by consequences, not motives.  Thus, people like Gavrilo Prinzip,
Heinrich Himmler and Osama bin Laden are not going to Heaven for their
acts of self-sacrifice.

I tend towards the idea that Heaven wants people to do good and Hell
wants them to do harm, but the exact definitions of those terms are
extremely complex, the fruit of many centuries of study by some of
history's finest minds, and in any case vary radically from one
campaign to another.  Selfish vs. selfless is a convenient first
approximation, which works about 90% of the time - good enough for Rock
'n' Roll.

Note that few of the archangelic Words are particularly selfless,
beyond the work ethic of serving the word instead of one's own
interests.  I think only David emphasises self-sacrifice as a virtue in
itself.  On the other side, Lilith, Valefor and the Princes of
Shal-Mari promote self-indulgence, but others such as Asmodeus, Baal,
Malphas and dark Khalid want people to set aside their own needs for a
greater cause.  Still, they do all set fine examples of selfishness.

Nigel Cole:

> (As an analogy, imagine a competition for the "Humblest Person of the
> Year" - anyone who thought they might qualify would be automatically
> disqualified :-)

Uriah Heep, perhaps?  But what about someone who considers humility to
be a vice, and is so ashamed of being humble they feel compelled to
confess it?

Sagitta