[gurps] Re: Rule of 16?

[hal at buffnet.net]

At 09:38 PM 3/20/2008 -0500, Chris wrote:
>On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 12:39 PM,  <hal at buffnet.net> wrote:
>
>>  If you take 100 character points for a mageborn character, and pair off
>>  that character against a 100 point fighter, chances are good that the
>>  fighter will win the battles on a regular basis.
>
>Only if you have a really stupid mage.


Hello Chris,
  If you note, this was in the original post:

</begin quote>
If you take 100 character points for a mageborn character, and pair off
that character against a 100 point fighter, chances are good that the
fighter will win the battles on a regular basis.  The usual proviso is that
only those spells within GURPS MAGIC from 3e are allowed to be used by the
mage (I agree that some of the spells originally introduced in GURPS
GRIMOIRE are WAY too overpowering or unbalanced as compared against the
original spells in GURPS MAGIC for 3e - let alone with the rest of the
rules!).
</end quote>

Note that I mentioned that some of the spells in GURPS GRIMOIRE are not
balanced as compared with the original spells in GURPS FANTASY first
edition or the subsequent publishing of GURPS MAGIC for 3e.  Note too that
I suggested disallowing their use.  No matter...

>Earth to Air:  You fall down, good luck when you hit the bottom!

Just as a person gets to make a save versus Shape Earth, they also get to
make a save versus Earth to air.  However, for the sake of argument, lets
say that your "mage" has made the attempt.  To turn one cubic yard into
air, that costs the mage 5 fatigue.  Not effective in a fight.  For an
ordinary mage with average fatigue levels (ie 10 fatigue), that's fifty
percent of his power store.

>Earth to Water: You are now neck deep in mud, good luck trying to hit me!

Move out of mud, or use a bow/sling/cast spear, etc.  In short, the problem
is hardly life threatening - so move silly.

>Walk Through Earth: I'm not here, good luck trying to hit me!

You have to come out sooner or later - your fatigue reserves will not
permit you to stay that way indefinitely.

>Rain of Stones: Dodge this!

That is a spell from GURPS GRIMOIRE.  As noted in other discussions at the
FORUM, for a mere 10 fatigue, a caster can inflict 2d6-2 damage over an
area of approximately 9 yards in diameter.  However, that ends up being a
one shot deal, as most targetted characters will be able to move out of the
area of effect within two seconds.  Anyone with decent armor should be able
to survive the essentially one shot attack.

>Body of Stone: Okay, hit me... see if you can do damage!

Spell wears off soon enough.  Be patient and wait until the spell wears
off.  Again, a spell from GURPS GRIMOIRE.

>Steelwraith: Silly fighter, I laugh at your metal weapons!

Spell wears off soon enough.  The thing to remember too, this spell does
not work against hafted weapons such as a spear or ax/mace's wooden handle.
 Again, a spell from GURPS GRIMOIRE.

>Walk on Air: Can't hurt me if you can't hit me!

Spell wears off within roughly 3 minutes for the average mage with a
fatigue pool of 10 fatigue.  This presumes the mage wants to do anything
"normal" or with another spell from atop the "height advantage".

>Wall of Air: Have fun getting through the wall!

Why worry about getting through it?  Walk around it.

>Beast Summoning: I don't have to fight you, I can have my buddy do it!

That would be effective to a degree - if you can summon a beast AND control
it upon its arrival.  That's not one spell, but multiple spells.  To top it
off, as distance will be variable, you have the issue of waiting for the
arrival as a random event.  

>Rain of Fire: Parry this!

Same issue as RAIN OF STONES.  Again, a spell from GURPS GRIMOIRE.

>Fire Cloud: Hot enough for you?

Same issue as RAIN OF STONES.  Again, a spell from GURPS GRIMOIRE.

>Teleport: I'm outta here!

That works - but then the mage has abdicated the field of battle.  Hardly a
winning strategy.

>Plane-shift: I'm gone! 

That works - but then the mage has abdicated the field of battle.  Hardly a
winning strategy.  It also has a fatigue cost of 20 fatigue.  Something
that a 100 point character is highly unlikely to have available.  Again, a
spell from GURPS GRIMOIRE.

>Simple/Complex/Perfect Illusion: Hit me? Which me?

That can present an issue, but illusions don't win battles.  Also remember,
that illusions that are struck for even 1 point of damage vanish.  A mage
fighting a fighter who happens to have Thaumatology, will know that ONE of
the images is an illusion (assuming that the skill use is successful).
Even a fighter without Thaumatology, will know that he needs to attack one
and have a 50/50 chance of hitting the right target.  If the wrong target,
a single point of damage disperses the wrong one.

>Create Warrior: Fight fire with fire!

The energy cost for that requires merely that the warrior bide his time,
move around a fair bit, and defend constantly.  At 4 fatigue to cast, plus
4 to maintain per minute, the option is not the best.  In addition?  The
Warrior does not come with weapons or armor.

>Darkness: Can't hit me if you can't see me!

Good news - you're right.  Bad news?  The mage can't move out of the
darkness area either.  To create a two hex radius spell (ie 7 hexes of
darkness), the mage has to spend 4 fatigue (or 3 if the mage knows the
spell at skill level 15 to 19).  More bad news?  The spell only lasts a
minute.  Even more bad news?  The spell is not offensive enough to take the
fighter out of commission.  In short?  Unless used in a combination attack,
it is relatively useless in battle against a prepared warrior.

>Glue: Can't hurt me if you can't chase me!

Glue does have saving rolls involved on behalf of the fighter.  Against a
straight ST saving roll, a Fighter with a decent strength has a good shot
at avoiding the problem.  It does have the benefit however of lasting 10
minutes for the cost of 3 fatigue if skill 14 or less, or 2 fatigue if
skill 15 to 19.  THIS one is a reasonable threat.  Combine this with an
area spell such as Create Fire, or other such spells, and the fighter will
have problems.  However - as a thrown spell, you have to be real close to
the fighter.  Not likely to happen if the fighter is on his toes.

>Grease: Good luck keeping your footing!

Um, for 3 fatigue, the spell only affects a single hex.  For 6 fatigue (or
5 fatigue if the spell skill is 15+), it affects a radius of 2 hexes.  A DX
12 fighter has a 50/50 chance of not being affected by the spell per hex he
moves through with the GREASE cast upon it.

>Zombie Summoning: Have fun fighting my friends... er.. fiends?

If there are no zombies there in the first place, what good is this spell?

Much of the tactics of fighting a mage depend on the environment the fight
occurs in, the circumstances of the fight itself, and the spell mix of the
mage being fought.  If I were running a fighter against a mage, my number
one tactic against the mage would be to let the mage wear himself out,
while using missiles in the form of a bow.  My number two tactic against
the mage would be to maintain a healthy distance between the mage and my
fighter so as to increase the spell casting penalties.  Every failed spell
that is cast costs the mage 1 fatigue.  Every area spell usually lasts only
a minute or so, and requires up to 50% of the mageborn's energy reserves to
cast.  A ST 10 DX 10 fighter will have problems with DX or ST based
attacks.  At levels of 12 however, the saving roll versus the spells that
are physical in nature tend to favor the fighter on a 50/50 basis (ie DX-2,
ST-2 etc).

What I would suggest as a possibility Chris?  Create your 100 point
character and post him to the list.  I'll do the same for a fighter.  Then,
people on the net can try out a duel between the two characters as they see
fit, using the basic guidelines I'll post as tactics for the fighter.  It
might prove educational ;)

Which system of GURPS would you like to utilize?  GURPS 3e or GURPS 4e?  Both?